Isabelle Hau on Love to Learn

On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Jordan Luster explores the transformative potential of relational intelligence in education with Isabelle Hau, Executive Director of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning and author of “Love to Learn.” Together, they explore the concept of relational intelligence (RQ) and its importance in shaping relationship-centered learning environments. Isabelle shares insights on how fostering strong emotional connections can enhance learning experiences, emphasizing that love and relationships are foundational to education. The conversation further examines how microschools and community-centered models can be effective solutions to the relational crisis in education, offering personalized and meaningful learning experiences. Isabelle also highlights the role of technology, advocating for “relationally responsible tech” that supports human connections. This episode is a must-listen for educators and leaders seeking to integrate deeper emotional and social learning elements into their educational practices.

Outline

• (00:00) Introduction to the Podcast
• (02:50) Concerning Statistics on Emotional Connections
• (05:42) Relational Intelligence vs. Traditional Metrics
• (08:57) Measuring Relational Intelligence
• (12:20) The Concept of Love Quotient (LQ)
• (17:34) Challenges in Building Relationships in Education
• (22:27) Micro Schools: A Relational Hub
• (27:33) Relationally Responsible Technology
• (31:24) Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Introduction to the Podcast

Jordan Luster: You’re listening to the Getting Smart Podcast, and I’m your host, Jordan Luster. At Getting Smart, we’re always thinking about what lies ahead in education innovation. We’re genuinely interested in exploring how human-centered AI and emerging technologies can enhance learning.

As a former early childhood educator with over a decade of experience and now a mom to a kindergartner, I’m also deeply curious about the foundational elements of learning that stand the test of time. How do relationships, connection, and a sense of belonging shape a child’s ability to learn? And in the rapidly evolving AI world, how can we ensure that education remains deeply human at its core?

I’m excited to be joined today by Isabelle Hau, Executive Director of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning and author of Love to Learn. Hau’s work challenges us to think beyond traditional measures of success, advocating for a shift from child-centered education to relationship-centered learning.

I’m looking forward to digging into her thoughts on relational intelligence, what it means, why it matters, and how we can foster it in schools and at home. We’ll also explore the intersection of AI and relationships in learning. Can technology ever truly support human connection? And what does it mean to build relationally responsible tech? There’s so much to unpack here, and I can’t wait to dive into this conversation. How are you doing today, Isabelle?

Isabelle Hau: I’m doing really well and what a beautiful introduction, Jordan, and also such a joy to be together, given your deep knowledge of the early years. I’m really excited to be with you.

Jordan Luster: Thank you. Likewise. I’ve had the opportunity of reading your bio and you have such an extensive and unique career journey from leading investments in education at Imaginable Futures to now driving research and innovation at Stanford. I’m interested, you know, because I’m sure that you’ve seen firsthand what truly transforms learning.

How did these experiences shape the ideas in Love to Learn? And were there any moments or pivotal experiences that shifted your thinking on the importance of relationships in education that inspired you to write this book?

Concerning Statistics on Emotional Connections

Isabelle Hau: Let me actually speak about something else, which really led to me writing this book and being actually quite concerned, may I say, Jordan, about what is happening and what may actually not be visible. So relationships are something that all of us really understand and think that we know well. It’s very intuitive, very human. Yet, and this was back at the beginning of COVID, I had the opportunity to meet with an amazing researcher colleague named Dani Dimitri, who works at Columbia University. She was studying a cohort of moms with babies at the Morgan Stanley Hospital in New York City.

So mind you, it was the beginning of COVID in New York City. So really, really, uh, very stressful times in the Big Apple at the time. But the data that she was sharing with me were deeply, deeply concerning. So she had only 20% of the cohort of moms that were on hold in that hospital had a strong emotional connection between mom and baby. So meaning 80% didn’t.

Jordan Luster: Hmm.

Isabelle Hau: I was, well, this is really concerning. 80% of moms do not have a strong emotional connection. Okay. Well, maybe this is because we are in this very unusual time, where we are all under massive stress, not knowing what’s going on and sirens are around us. But then she showed another stat that was pre-COVID, where she showed that only 40% of moms had a strong emotional connection with their little one, even before the pandemic. And that’s really that stat that led me to dig more into what was going on. Because if we knew before COVID that 60% of moms in New York City don’t have a strong emotional connection, what does that mean societally? Why do we even, you know, why don’t we focus on this very strong notion that relationships that are so human for all of us, yet are deteriorating for a number of reasons that none of us controls, but how can we pay more attention to this?

Jordan Luster: Yeah, no, that’s, that is alarming. And concerning, when you said, oh, this was during the pandemic. I initially am thinking of all of the contributing factors from the pandemic, but having that research prior to that, you know, suggests the same thing. That’s, that’s definitely a cause for concern.

Relational Intelligence vs. Traditional Metrics

Jordan Luster: I’m, I know that your book advocates for the shift from the child-centered education, like just bringing this back into education to more relationship-centered learning and focusing on relational intelligence over GPA and over IQ. So can you just elaborate a little bit more on what relational intelligence entails and how it can be fostered in educational settings, but also at home?

Isabelle Hau: Yeah, I think for all of us, and certainly starting with me, when I think about human intelligence, I think about IQ. But I think most of us think first and foremost about when we think about human intelligence and that notion of IQ or cognitive intelligence has been translating so much in our education systems. That’s what we’re measuring success. You know, for GPA or in most forms of academic success are very cognitive-based. The good news is that over the past 20 years or so, there has been a rise in another form of intelligence, especially in the workforce that’s more and more recognized called EQ, emotional intelligence. And that has also started to infiltrate a lot of our school systems with social-emotional learning.

However, I think that we are at a really interesting point of time with artificial intelligence, where I believe that another form of intelligence needs to rise, what I call relational intelligence, which is an extension in many ways of emotional intelligence, but emotional intelligence is very self-based. So how can we have more human’s ability of navigating effectively, and with others the value social and interpersonal situations, which is what is additional intelligence?

The reason why I think it’s so important right now is because a lot of the future of work and future occupations are already evolving toward relational intelligence. So we already know that to be successful in work, we need to work in teams. We need to understand all these interdependencies between people. We need to be collaborative. Collaboration is always coming on like top of any list by LinkedIn or by World Economic Forum. All these lists that we see of what makes someone successful in the workplace. So how can we translate that a lot more in our educational systems if we know this is one of those skills of the future? And by the way, one more thing is AI will impact massively what has been traditionally cognitive intelligence and emotional intelligence because AI is really, really good at a lot of the cognitive pieces of what has made human intelligence.

Measuring Relational Intelligence

Jordan Luster: I’m seeing, like you said, a lot of schools shift towards integration of SEL curriculums. And I think, you know, Getting Smart, we help support many different schools and systems with this integration of competency-based learning and how to build competencies and measure against competencies rather than standards. And some of the things that you mentioned are typically within those competencies, they’re included or embedded within those competencies. I’d love to lean in on and dig in a little bit more around how do you see this being measured and you know, what metrics are being used to measure this? Relational intelligence.

Isabelle Hau: Mm-hmm. I think this is an area that actually was a great surprise for me, Jordan, as you know, as part of my research, which is that there is very little.

Jordan Luster: Mm-hmm.

Isabelle Hau: So what we, what we have is this huge body of called the science of relationships, especially in the earlier years of education where every single scientist is saying, every child needs at least one strong adult relationship to learn and thrive in their life. You know, to learn, but also, you know, all these huge benefits in terms of thriving wellbeing, even longevity. However, we have very, very few data about how our kids are faring, in terms of, for example, number of relationships. Very, very few schools track how, you know, how many strong relationships a child has in that environment. Simply because I think we have taken a lot of those relational elements for granted. And we have not invested in them. We know they are actually really what matters. And intuitively, this is really feels right, that relationships matter in learning if this is how our brains, brains are very social. But we have not, it’s almost like, yeah, we take them from granted and we don’t really pay attention, and so we don’t measure them enough. This being said, there are a few measures that are really exciting. There is one area in particular that I’m that I would like to highlight, which is not in education, it’s in health where a number of colleagues are starting to measure what we are referred to as early relational health with some measures that are being explored with pediatricians. Or health settings, which could be adapted quite easily to education. So very promising, but right now very, you know, specialized to the health sector. So, anyways, there are some promising, promising things that are evolving. There’s also, measures by you know, that exist on attachment and bonding and different forms of measures that could be extending, extended and used a lot more in education settings to observe the relational health, of any child or any schools.

Jordan Luster: Hmm.

The Concept of Love Quotient (LQ)

Jordan Luster: Now I’m curious because in your book you talk a little bit about the concept of a love quotient. So would this be one of those indicators and can you tell us a little bit more of what the love quotient is and how educators can focus on fostering the ability to ask right questions rather than just providing correct answers.

Isabelle Hau: Yeah. So the and, and this concept of love quotient or LQ, which by the way came from a businessman in China. So very much coming from the business sector, saying how much, relationships and love are so important in this future of economy and future, future overall. So it’s nice that those, those elements are coming from the business sector and not so much only from educational research. So Jack Ma is the, is the businessman that coined the term, love quotient, which I, which I really appreciate. But those notions of LQ, or what I call myself, relational intelligence, which I named RQ very, very close to each other that’s a form of intelligence again that I would love to see. Increase, a lot more of this notion of how do we relate to each other, in and how, how how we care for each other, how we relate to each other as humans.

Jordan Luster: Just to give a little bit of context, a lot of my teaching experience was working within communities that were historically excluded and have extremely diverse populations. And so I am really interested in, I guess. Understanding the alignment of culturally responsive relationship building to what it is that you just described within the love quotient and also just relationship building period as educators. Is that something that’s touched on a little bit in your book or is that something that you, you know, can speak to a little bit just around like culturally responsive relationship building?

Isabelle Hau: Yeah, absolutely. So I speak a little bit in the book and I actually think it’s foundational to what I’m describing. By the way, this concept of love in education is not a new concept. It’s one that as a cultural relevant movement has been advocating for a long time. This is also one that I find is, not only transcending a lot of cultures, but also a lot of religions and faiths. It’s, you know, this concept of love is universal. It’s what makes us humans. So, absolutely. The culturally responsive movement in education the positive relationship movement, all these are very much foundational to what I’m describing.

Jordan Luster: Okay. Thank you for not only like, you know. Giving that additional insight, but also including that within your book. I agree. I think that it is foundational and necessary even when we’re talking about building relationships with humans, especially when you are in communities that are extremely diverse or serving historically excluded populations or even more transient populations. When you have students who are, you know, leaving every year and you might have a new batch of kids every year, you know, what does that look like as far as relationship building?

Is that something that Stanford is working towards?

Isabelle Hau: It’s not one that is discussed a lot. However, this notion of, teachers as relational agents or as I call them in the book, relational brain builders, is very intuitive to any educator, any, I mean, I’m. But any educator that I meet, and I meet a lot of them all, all the time are all are all relational. I have, I have yet not to meet one who is not relational. They come to the profession because they love relationships with other humans, whether they are younger children or older ones. Here at Stanford. And they stay in the profession because of those relationships. This relational element, this is what educators love, is this relational piece. However, other things that are happening in schools that make it very complicated, whether it’s large size ratio in classrooms or other factors that are administrative based that make it very complicated for educators to develop those and foster those strong relationships.

Jordan Luster: I know just from my own experience, when you are one to 28 you, you really have to. To be extremely intentional. And even then, like it’s, it’s a challenge. It’s difficult.

Challenges in Building Relationships in Education

Jordan Luster: Your book really highlights this crisis, this relational crisis, not only in schools but at home as well. And I’m wondering, you know, what do you feel like the most significant contributing factors are to this problem? And then what immediate steps can be taken by teachers and parents to address them?

Isabelle Hau: Yeah. So in families, there is something really interesting happening. So of course families are getting smaller, so let me, let me, let me. Start with that. You know, just the, you know, we, we all know the fertility crisis right now, but clearly it shows in, you know, we have for example, more, almost 1 in 5 families has only 1 child at this point. And that has, you know, when I was growing up, this was very rare to see families with only 1 child. Now at this point, it’s not rare anymore. It’s a, a lot of families only have 1 child, so that’s 1 factor. Another one that actually, from a, a demographic standpoint that I found really interesting is, we live more and more in age-segregated societies. So for example, one step that surprised me a lot, that came from one of my colleagues here at Stanford is only 40% of children have ever met, someone above age 65 who is not part of their own family. So meaning we, we do not live next to, you know, younger, younger families who are younger, do not live next to elder communities, which is really interesting by itself. But there is another trend that also is causing some, which is, which I found really, really interesting and paradoxical. Which is that families are spending more and more time with children. So that’s a really good news from a relational perspective, esp both moms and dads by the way. But especially dads. So dads are spending more and more time with, with their children, which is beautiful. So we as parents or, or primary caregivers or, or guardians, are more and more and more present in our children’s lives. However, we are also more and more absent. Because we are constantly on our devices and I’m, not pointing fingers at anyone, myself included. You know, this is very, very clear from my own behaviors. I was checking a, a recent stat that shows that for 2024 we had, any American was picking up their phone 205 times a day. And I would encourage any listener to actually check their device and see what their stats were. Mine actually are higher, may I admit, ven list 205 numbers, as of yesterday. So I’m, again, this is not, not, not to say that you know, it’s a very, these devices are very addictive and as a result of that we are, potentially interrupting those beautiful relationships with our children as a result of picking those devices and checking our, notifications or responding to a, to a text or responding to an email or, or, or, you know, checking some, some other social media channels. So. That has been shown, for many researchers to have a profound, and a negative impact on, parent-child relationships. What my researcher colleagues are calling techno because essentially it signals to the child that the device is more important than they are. And so in addition to obviously the modeling to the child of how a parent use their, their device so that’s, that’s really interesting as a, a broader societal phenomenon. More, more present, but more absent, in our children’s lives.

Jordan Luster: Yeah. Okay. No, I like you said, I can definitely relate especially when you are working all day and you, your kids finally come home and then you’re looking at your phone for the first time and you’re going through all the texts. It, it can be difficult. But I wanna, I wanna go back to some of the other factors that you mentioned around just large class sizes and age segregation and then just kind of that piece around emotionally absent parents.

Micro Schools: A Relational Hub

Jordan Luster: And I want to talk about school models that are, you know, right now, I, I I’m doing a lot of work with microschools and for those who are new to this conversation, microschools are just simply small, nimble learning environments that allow for more personalized learning for learners. So. In these microschools, for example, at the Morgan Oliver School in Atlanta, Georgia, it’s a K-7 school for now. They offer extremely small class sizes and very personalized learning options. There are mixed age groups and the school is. This community-based model that invites in community members to, provide either like. Services or extracurricular opportunities for students. They invite in families to come in and read. They invite in, you know, local restaurant owners to come in and, and do demonstrations. They invite in just different members within the community as stakeholders. And I know in your book you talk about, you know, these learning hubs and schools being just that. And as I heard you, list out all of the, the, the significant contributing factors to this crisis, I just couldn’t help in the back of my head. And maybe it’s because microschools are always at top of mind for me. But I couldn’t help but, but think about microschools as, you know, a solution to this within education and allowing for, you know, like, it’s, it’s a small, nimble environment, but it mitigates a lot of this. Am I, am I on the right track?

Isabelle Hau: Yeah. I love what you, everything you’re saying, Jordan. ‘Cause microschools are one of those exemplars of relational hubs for sure. I speak in the book about one, that I really love is Wildflower Montessori. That’s a set of microschools that are one, classroom concept where, the teacher is also the administrator of that school and the, small class sizes, very close to the community. Very, open doors for parents and other community members. So that’s one model that I love. Another one that I absolutely, sorry, adore is in Washington, DC, Bria PCS. PCS stands for Public Charter School. That has what we call a two generation approach where they provide early childhood education for the little ones, and then we also offer classes for adults. So. Parents and guardians can come on site and take classes, whether they are for English language learning, if a parent doesn’t speak English, or it could be vocational training, GED classes, and some form of, workforce training as well. What it does is something quite magical because parents actually are coming on site and meaning other parents. So you have naturally the bonding and, and fostering of a community among parents and then parents also meeting the teachers, and also getting more involved in their child education as a result. So that’s a beautiful model, one that I would love to see more of this combination of. Also offerings for parents, for parents to be also, bettering themselves, in addition to their child’s education.

Jordan Luster: I could, I could go on a tangent about microschools clearly. But I do, I just did, I did want to highlight them as, you know, small schools being, one of the solutions in mitigating, you know, some of, some of those factors that you highlighted.

Isabelle Hau: And Jordan thinking about relationships among so often we think about the teacher-child relationship in a school context, but also thinking about here we are discussing potentially parent to parent relationships in those advocacy or. Vocational training opportunities that, that some of those schools are providing or teacher, parent. Even I would go as far as saying child to child also. Anyway, all these different types of relationships that need to be fostered and of course community at large. With your great example about, restaurant, restaurant owners coming on site and sharing about their work. I mean, those are beautiful examples of, how to open schools to become really more community-centered and facilitating different generations, different people to contribute to the education of our little ones.

Jordan Luster: Yes.

Relationally Responsible Technology

Jordan Luster: Really quick, I wanna tie this back into just technology and AI while we have. Several, you know, district leaders and school leaders who are trying to find that balance. And between technology integration and, you know, building relational responsible, you know, building relationships. So. When your book is referring to like relationally responsible tech can you describe what that looks like in, in practice, like relationally responsible tech and, and what steps can be taken to really promote the development and adoption of this type of technology?

Isabelle Hau: Let me maybe start by saying something very obvious to all the listeners. I mean, technology can be a force for good or not. So a lot of the technology can be augmenting how human connections how, but, but we need to be a lot more intentional about it. So let me give a very, very practical example. We should not. Ban, or, or say no to FaceTime with grandma or grandpa. That’s a beautiful use of technology. That’s technology that enhances connections. That’s exactly relational tech in my mind.

Jordan Luster: Yeah. Yeah.

Isabelle Hau: However, you know, there are lots of uses of technology that are not, good from a relationships perspective that are actually further isolating our kids. And those are ones that I’m more concerned about. And some of my colleagues, including Kathy Hirsch-Pasek has studied a number of educational apps and showed that 90% of, of those actually are not, you know, responsible, relational tech. They are what I call in the book junk tech. So we have a lot of work, that we all need to do to move toward more relational, technology and ensuring, that there’s a lot more intentionality about augmenting, using technology to augment our human connections.

Jordan Luster: I know we’re almost at time, but I’d love if you could share maybe a list of some of those tools that are in that 10% that, that maybe. Teachers and educators and district leaders out there can consider adopting or in place of some of those you know, some of those technologies that are not relational. You call them junk technologies, right?

Isabelle Hau: Little bit like junk food, you know,

Jordan Luster: Yes, yes.

Isabelle Hau: you can eat a little bit of junk tech, but not junk food. Yeah, there are, there are some really, interesting use of technology. Let me, let me give, give one example that we are studying at Stanford. We call it the Google Glass Project, and those are specialized glasses that a child can wear to detect emotions. And those are particularly helpful for children who are on the autism spectrum who have a harder time to, read emotions from the person across from them. So those are, yeah, just one, one really interesting use of technology that actually enhances human connections.

Jordan Luster: Yeah, no, that’s, we’ll definitely be looking into that. I think there are tons of school leaders out there who would love to learn more about that type of technology and how to replace their junk technology. That, you know, are like flooding classrooms right now with something that is more relational.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Jordan Luster: And I’m, I’m excited to learn more about those technologies and to read more and into your book I appreciate you not only for this conversation, but for bringing relationships back to the forefront and coupling that with not only, you know. Like tons of research, but you’re also digging into research that spans across different sectors. You’ve mentioned business and health, and we’re tying those into education, and we’re using those models to, to help strengthen our educational systems and to innovate or, you know, like, are we innovating when this is just such a foundational and archaic concept? But I, I do thank you for bringing this back to the forefront and for challenging us to really rethink relationships and learning. Your thoughts and insights from Love to Learn, really highlight why relational intelligence matters just as much as academic success to our listeners. I really hope this conversation sparks new ideas on how to build meaningful connections and education. Be sure to check out Love to Learn, and stay connected with us at Getting Smart. Thank you, so much for tuning in.

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Guest Bio

Isabelle Hau

Isabelle Hau is the executive director of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning, a Stanford-wide initiative to connect scholars and students across disciplines, and bridge research, practice, and policy, to bring quality, scalable and equitable learning experiences for all learners and throughout the lifespan.

Prior, she was a founding partner at Imaginable Futures, a venture of the Omidyar Group, the philanthropic investment firm of eBay founder Pierre Omidyar and his wife Pam. She led the U.S. education initiative, portfolio and team. Her work has directly impacted millions of learners and families.

Isabelle earned an MBA from Harvard Business School and graduated from ESSEC and Sciences Po Paris.

Links

• Watch the full video here
• LinkedIn
• Love to Learn
• Isabelle Hau Site
• Wildflower Montessori